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Re: [JDEV] Re: Jabber sigs/crypto
> A user would have to be careful not to use the exact same phrase at
>the beginning of an instant message that the encryption function places to
>denote encrypted text (ie, ---begin encrypted text here --- ; or whatever)
>or else the recieving client program will try to decipher the plain text.
Hmmm...I'm not sure of an obvious way around this right now, but this seems
to be an unacceptable (to me at least) requirement...if I were a user of a
problem like this and was told 'yeah, type your message here, but whatever
you do, don't start with this particular string'...it just would give me
the impression that the system was somehow shoddy. There must be one way
or another around it...
> Users would have to have the same client program, or compatible
>programs (which could be easily accomplished by releasing the lib and code
>to developers. Users without client programs would be unable to decrypt
>secure messages, and should have a intercepting routine that would stop the
>message from appearing, and send a return message stating so. This would
>have to be included in all clients to ensure there is no confusion. Another
>thing for the enabled clients would be to not allow encryption to
>Jabber-only "buddies", I don't think ICQ or AIM would work :) And
>remember to code for the least common denominator machine, the PC's little
>endian, to ensure platform portability.
I would have assumed the code would be designed such that it could run on
either big or little endian, depending on compilation constants.
> As with any uses of keys, this could seriously hamper "roaming"
>capabilities of the user (for secure modes, that is). Unless the keys were
>stored on the server, which would kinda disrupt the whole idea of the thing
Perhaps key distribution could work sort of like this:
- when the user originally registers, the server that registered them
stores their public key. None of the other servers have it.
- when you add someone to your 'buddy' list (or if you explicitly request
it, I guess), your client contacts its current server to retrieve the key.
If the server does not have it, then it radiates out in a DNS kind of
manner...contacting another to see if he has it, and so forth. Once the
server has retrieved the key, it can give it to the client. The server
will keep keys it had to retrieve from elsewhere for a configurable amount
of time (like say 2 weeks) and then delete them; this way, dead/unused keys
will not just infinitely fill up everywhere; the 'dead wood' bloat will go
on at all servers (as all servers will likely take initial registrations),
but this way the 'dead wood' redundancy will be kept to a minimum. Some
other method could perhaps be implemented at each server to periodically
kill dead accounts (like if the account/key hasn't been accessed in 6
months (or some other configurable period) and no other servers have
retrieved the key, then you can consider him dead). This way, we prevent
the case where each server (as time approaches infinity) has an unwieldy
amount of usued accounts filling up space on it.
So, with such a design, the average user who uses it on a daily/several
times a week basis will have quick response; he'll be talking to other
people who are on a lot, and their keys will be floating around at various
servers. The worst case is on the first time ever key retrieval when the
server must traverse the servers all the way to the other user's
registration server...but even this won't take too long (and that would
only happen if the other user had never had their key requested anywhere
before). So, in the general case, it should be pretty good behavior.
> Better yet, make an "aware" client program disable the encryption and
>sigs for "buddies" that are not tagged with "encryption aware" options (like
>a check-box within a "buddy config" menu). This would allow unaware clients
>to not be "readied" for encryption tags. Aware clients would just alert
>"their own user" that they cannot send sigs or encrypted text to that
Hmm...this is a good idea. Anything to make it easier on people with
encryption unaware clients (like the average AOL-type person).
> This would require changes to the Jabber server program, to accept and
>verify users as they log on, but the program would have to be flexible
>enough to allow non-enabled clients to logon without. But if implemented,
>could be done by just verifying the digital signature.
Yeah, so this is what I was talking about earlier...if the Jabber server
needs to verify a digital sig for every user as they log on, will this
place an unacceptable processing burden on the server's CPU? (or in other
words will server scalability suck because of this processing overhead) I
think I need to do some investigation into how fast verification is with a
variety of algorithms.
>>> Make a 40-bit weak version and a 128-bit one (a la the browsers)?
>I would think that 40-bit would be quite suffencient for just one or two
>line messages between friends.
Yeah, _you_ might feel that it's adequate, but lots of people would
disagree. I mean, don't get me wrong: I myself am one of those people who
doesn't bother getting the 128-bit versions of Netscape to do my online
purchases; I figure if someone feels like taking the effort to get my
credit card number, they almost deserve it (then again, it would be
Mastercard who'd be taking the hit, I think). I think especially if people
would want to use Jabber in a business environment, they'd be looking for >
40 bit. This appears to have already been an issue with ICQ; I guess
several businesses complained to Mirabilis when they realized how easy it
was to sniff and spoof with ICQ, and how they couldn't talk about
business-related matters with confidence when using it. (to which
Mirabilis responded that ICQ was never intended for use in a business
environment, blah blah) Applied Crypto recommends:
tactical military info (minutes/hours) 56-64 bits
product announcements, mergers, interest rates (days/weeks) 64 bits
long-term business plans (years) 64 bits
trade secrets (decades) 112 bits
>To go the 128-bit route, is to open a whole
>can of legal worms in distribution and all that. Although, I think it would
>be cool if we went one step further, to say 512-bit, and became the de-facto
>standard for transmitting credit card numbers and the like through the
>internet, but then again, that's just dreaming.
As I mentioned a few paragraphs above, I'm wondering if the 'dumbed-down
key' approach is workable here.
>As soon as my server comes up (should be a month or so, life, you know), I
>would be glad to host it, if no other host is found by then.
I'm sure I can host some stuff on our ACM machines (hey, we even have an 8
node Beowulf cluster we're just finishing bringing online, too! :)...our
main user machine (chimera.acm.jhu.edu) might be of use.
>It has been freed up since Apr 97. El Gamal sounds good (although I think I
>read somewhere that it is "relatively easy" to break, ie, the NSA would have
>no problems at all).
? Are you sure about this one, or perhaps you have it crossed in your mind
with another one? If you have seen evidence of this and remember where,
can you point me there? All of the reading I've done so far has made no
mention of known major flaws in El Gamal; it is still regarded as being
secure (unless some new developments to indicate otherwise have gone on
more recently than my literature)
>The only other non-patented system I can think of
>off-hand would be the Blowfish algorithm, by Bruce Schneier, which he
>distributes freely. It can handle up to, I think, 448-bit encryption, but
>has a larger memory footprint. Either would work, I would guess.
Well, no. El Gamal is a public key (asymmetric) system; Blowfish is
symmetric (like DES). There is no way to use Blowfish for authentication.
It might be possible to use a hybrid approach (like PGP) and use an
asymmetric algorithm for signing and authentication, and key management,
but while still using a symmetric (and thus MUCH faster...on the order of
1000x faster) algorithm to do the encryption of the bulk data.